Salut Effisk,

Sorry it's so funny

Kate

This definitely used to be one of the most important qualities of any child in Australia.
The author says you shouldn’t get confused by the ideas of overseas parents that children must actually DO something for their parents to be proud of them.
In Australia the highest praise you can give a child is to say it is ‘no trouble’. This must be pointed out at every chance.

For good children:
“Oh, Kim’s never any problem!”
“Aren’t you lucky!”
“You’d hardly know Kerry was there.”
“Oh, isn’t that nice.”
“We certainly don’t hear any noise out of Ronnie.”
“Wonderful!”
“And Tom’s a perfect angel.”
“I don’t know how you do it.”

By contrast, you should always point out how much trouble your neighbours or cousins or sisters are having with their kids.

For bad children.
“Her Tim’s forever making a racket on his guitar”
“Isn’t that awful!”
“The flat’s always messed up with Dana’s chemistry set.”
“Oh dear, how dangerous!”
“I don’t know how they put up with Lynn’s singing.”
“Must be dreadful.”
“And then there’s Ricky who never stops asking questions.”
“It just goes to show....”

Foreign parents are always talking about their children’s particular ambitions and about how much they have to do to turn the kids into computer geniuses, concert pianists and champion gymnasts. Australian parents, level headed and naturally modest people, feel against this kind of ‘over the top’ behaviour and simply will not be part of it.
After all, children may have their own personalities, they may even have special talents, but they shouldn’t be allowed to have these at the expense of everyone else.
Several years ago, when the author was still new to Oz ways, he was told by a couple at a party “Oh, we are very proud of our children, they’re no trouble at all.”
His immediate reaction was to congratulate them. He imagined a pair of brilliant young musicians practicing all day long with their parent’s support, or better even, 2 young electronics geniuses.
It was not for some time that he learned the true meaning of those words.
The description of the children as ‘no trouble’ simply meant that the kids:

a. didn’t do anything in particular
b. stayed out of their parents way
c. never spoke unless they were spoken to
d. spent a lot of time out of the house in computer game parlours
e. in the evenings sat around for hours staring at nothing much on TV.

Well, this one was certainly true in the past, but I’m not so sure about these days....however a lot of older than age 30 Aussies you meet may have grown up this way...

Since Australia is the land of the future, great attention is placed on the young. In the worn out, tired societies of Europe, children are just made to fit into established patterns.
Here, the patterns have been abandoned.
Now you have a chance to grow up freely and be yourself, as long as you take note of a few simple hints:
(I think this list below is about teenagers, most of all)

1. Make sure you get paid for even the smallest bit of work you may do for your parents. Grumble about the money they give you. It doesn’t matter what amount - always demand more. This way you’ll get an early understanding of the wages system.

2. There must be tension between yourself and the rest of the family, at all times. The slightest request from parents should make you irritated. Make sure they understand that everything you do for them is a real effort.

3. Never show enthusiasm. People might misunderstand and think that you’re drunk or on drugs. Besides, you’ll save a lot of energy. If you must be enthusiastic about something, it should always be about your OWN plans, projects or ideas, because in Australia this is what ‘enthusiasm’ is usually taken to mean (K: Hey, I've just realized this could really be true!!)

4. At school, never act too clever as that will single you out. If you know the answer to a question, it’s best to keep quiet about it so less smart friends won’t think there is something strange about you (this could also be true)

5. Make your parents/elders happy by not having a point of view of your own. Most Australian grown ups don’t like contradiction. Just repeat what they want to hear and they’ll be very grateful to you. Don’t make any decisions yourself. Ideal types of conversation with adults should be:
Parent: “Do you want lunch?”
Teenager: “If you like”
“How hungry are you?”
“I’m not sure.”

Ok, les vacances ont fini, now back to work!

for this chapter, the book says:

You must learn to be against everything, because that is really Australian.
All modern thinking progressive Aussies are against to change or anything new, and they are respected for it.
In fact, more Aussies have put their names to petitions or protests AGAINST new projects, developments, schemes, etc than FOR them.
Sometimes there’s trouble with overseas bankers and architects who don’t seem to understand that in Australia it is normal to be against: tall buildings, long bridges, tunnels, airports, heliports, Mobile Telephone towers, lopping down trees, digging into the earth, damming up water, medical experiments, holiday resorts, etc. This shows you are a serious person with deep committed feelings.
The fact that the country might be in more trouble WITHOUT change, doesn’t seem to matter.

(Ok, I agree there are more protests against things than for them, but since the 80’s when the book was written, I think we protest a lot less...now we protest against different things...)

In Moscow or Paris, no sooner does a political event take place than some local humourist has made up a detailed story about it. When Ronald Reagan met Mikhail Gorbachev in 1986, par exemple, they’d come up with this kind of thing:

The American President asked the Russian leader if there was anything he wanted from The States. “Yes,” said Gorbachev “I want to make love to the stuning star of television’s “Dynasty”, Linda Evans.”
“Reagan came back the next day and said “I spoke to Miss Evans and she’ll go to Moscow only on the condition that you open the Soviet Borders and give everyone their freedom. Gorbacev’s face lit up. “Ah”, he said “then she must really love me. She wants the two of us to be left all alone!”

In Australia, events are treated rather differently. When a friend of the author arrived from Paris a few years ago, on a lecture tour on the French political situation, after a particularly serious and involved session, he expected his listeners to ask “What then is the French Government’s position on atomic testing?” Instead, they took him aside and said:
“Tell us, is it true that the French President is really a transvestite?”

While other countries have their humourists, Australia has ‘rumourists’ instead. One might say that Australians have a great sense of rumour.
(The author suggests that this love of rumour may come from the family: As parents won’t talk much about their true past, and kids won’t talk about where they go once they’re out of the house, it follows that everyone has to rely on rumour and guessing to get at the truth. And they do.)

If some upstart politician gets into office, in Europe people might say “He’s an incompetent fool and he’ll soon get what he deserves.”
In Australia, however, no one would dare predict a career cut short by just mere incompetence.
Australians might remark instead: “Of course the gambling debts had to be paid.”
“Must be somebody’s mate that he got elected”
“I wonder if he’s still trading in drugs?”

British legal system battled for centuries to come up with the ‘innocent until proven guilty’ system.
Likewise Australians have made their own successful formula which goes like this: “If it’s rumoured, it must be true.”

Particularly successful rumours when casually stated are those which feature: busted marriages, drugs, underworld connections, etc.

If you become a public figure in Australia, it is normal that there should be rumours about you. In fact, the mark of fame is whether or not your own rumours are spread. While showing disgust and shock at the obviously untrue stories about yourself, you must still play fair and:

Be the first to believe every rumour spread about others
Pass on these rumours yourself, or else you might ‘break the chain’ and throw the country into confusion.

Remember, in Australia you may say anything, as long as you don’t back it up with facts.

The best way to introduce a good Australian rumour is without a single change in voice and with one of the following lines:

“That’s not what I heard”
“I wonder how many people realize...”
“My lawyer told me different....”

Since every Australian is a rumourist at heart, they will find this irresistable.

(And well, I think a lot of this is really true, even more-so these days with the media, but that’s not limited to Australia. In some ways, I think England is worse).

ET VOILA, LE FIN DU LIVRE!

So what have we learned here with book 1? Maybe that is for some of you to answer more than me, but I think these were some of the most important things:

Always look busy, always be sorry, be cheerful and always act ‘no worries mate’, no matter what, and don’t ask too many questions....
(and hopefully you’ll fit in just fine, if that’s what you want)

Future chapters will come at random from the majormitchell.com.au website, (which I will summarise and put into more simple terms) I’ll choose ones I think aren’t much out of date with current thinking.


Hope you had fun! I did

Kate

I began to read the irst part of the thread and it seems very very interesting!!Thanks Kate for posting this But gee,it seems so complicated LOL

Sarah,running to read

Mais merci Kate de ns faire partager cela avec toi. J'avoue q je retrouve certaines verites pr avoir vecu 3 mois dans une famille australienne a mon arrivee et si j'avais lu ton post avant, cela m'aurait certainement aide a comprendre des reactions et attitudes assez etranges!!!
Mais pour avoir vecu ds pas mal de pays, je suis d'accord avec toi pr dire q ce sont les individus qui forment une societe et q cela reste general, meme si tres instructif et helpful ds certains cas...

Bon ben je me poserai moins de questions a l'avenir et peut-etre q je vais me mettre a la biere et aux match de footies (en etant a Melbourne;, je n'ai pas d'excuse!!) ah et puis, si j'ai des pb, je vais en parler comme si ce n'etait pas les miens et apprendre a faire pleins de grimaces
Je plaisante et te remercie encore pr tes Posts super informatifs.
En tt cas, je suis contente d'etre une femme parce que dis-donc, ca a l'air costaud les relations homme-femme ici! Les femmes ont l'air bossy en general.. ca serait marrant de demander aux hommes qu'ils partagent leurs experiences, leurs succes mais aussi leur faux-pas!!
En tt cas je me souviens la 1ere fois q j'ai rencontre certains membres de la famille de mon mari, la femme traitait son mari comme un larbin (servant) "amenes-moi ceci-cela, celui-la ne marche pas, vas me chercher l'autre" sans dire s'il-te-plait ou merci...mais bon la aussi, ca doit dependre des couples quand meme!!!
Est-ce q tu te reconnais toi Kate, ds cette description donnee par le bouquin?? on devrait peut-etre demander a ton mari non?? bon aller I stop teasing you!

Domi

J'ai le bouquin a la maison et un mari Australien......
Ai pu faire comparaisons, mais pas trouve beaucoup de similitudes..Peut-etre qu'il n'est pas vraiment l'Australien typique!
Certains cotes quand meme tres vrais....

Si on retourne le sujet, qui a lu "Almost French" ? Histoire d'une australienne journaliste a SBS qui rencontre un francais en Roumanie et va vivre avec lui a Paris.. Elle y est toujours mais le bouquin est hilarant et aussi tres vrai! Les francais du cru devraient s'y reconnaitre!
Marie-Helene

Je l'ai acheté (almost French) et compte le lire très prochainement..

en attendant g commencé "60 million french can't be wrong, why we like France but not the french" écrit pas 2 canadiens...assez troublant de vérité...

Sinon un autre grand classique pour ceux qui veulent des infos sur l'Australie, l'excellent "Downunder" de Bill Bryson, très complet, très facile à lire et plein d'humour.... Un incontournable!!!

voilà Cheers!

Juste pour vous signaler qu'il existe déja des sujets de discussions sur 2 de ces livres :

ALMOST FRENCH :
http://www.francedownunder.com/forum/vi ... .php?t=561

DOWN UNDER / NOS VOISINS DU DESSOUS :
http://www.francedownunder.com/forum/vi ... php?t=2033

Voili Voilou !

je n'ai pas lu "Almost French", mais j'ai parcontre reconnu beaucoup de monde dans "One Year in Provence" de Peter Mayle.

Hi,

I am the wife of Asterix 92 and I really enjoyed reading your messages. It was of great interest and I learned more than ever as I spoke with some Frenchies living in Australia for many years who never understood or were able to explain why they did not mix up with the locals. I hope it will help me to avoid doing some mistakes in my future relationships with Aussies. But I hope also that some information is out of date because knowing myself I will not always be able to behave as if I were an Aussie. Anyway It will help me to have a non-offending behaviour (or what could be considred offending to them).

Many thanks again and I cannot wait for reading interesting articles or comments about the subject. And now the last but not the least, trying to meet Aussies.

j'ai lu a moitie ce livre ce week end et je trouve que c'est stupide, du grand n'importe quoi en majorite, seulement d'accord sur quelques points comme always be sorry.

Thanks Kate!!! J'ai apparemment plus de points communs avec les Australiens du livre qu'avec les Européens... Alors deux hypothèses : soit je ne suis pas une alien mais une Australienne sans le savoir... soit les Australiens sont des aliens
En tout cas, j'attends la suite avec impatience

Bon ben je suis sortie avec un aussie pendant un an et maintenant je comprends mieux... J'aurais su certaines de ces choses, ça aurait peut-être évité pas mal d'engueulades... Et dans mon cas, l'aussie ne sait pas gérer les conflits ou font tout pour les esquiver
Par contre je sais pas si c'est l'air anglais qui fait ça mais les Australiens ici sont carrément entreprenants avec les nanas. Ceci dit peut-être que chez eux, c'est une autre histoire.