Répondre au sujet  [ 27 message(s) ]  Aller vers la page Précédent  1, 2

Le fuseau horaire est UTC+8 heures [Heure d’été]

Auteur Message
 
Message Publié : 21 Fév 2005 10:28 
FranceDownUnder Addict
FranceDownUnder Addict
Hors-ligne
Inscription : 26 Fév 2004 23:54
Message(s) : 129
Localisation : on the way to perth/Royan (france)
Pour le f***, c'etait juste un trip entre potes maintenant it 's gone...

Et dis moi julien, tu bosses dans l'environement? car je suis tout pret de rentrer dans un BTS Gestion et Protection de la Nature ...
Ca serait cool si on pouvait se mailer de temps en temps en ce qui concerne la protection de la nature car je suis vraiment "preoccupe", attache et concerne par ce sujet (c'est pour cela que j'ai decide de reorienter mes etudes dans ce domaine apres 2 ans de psychologie...)

Mon mail perso : flausse@hotmail.com

see you


  Profil  
 
 
Message Publié : 21 Fév 2005 13:17 
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Mate
Mate
Hors-ligne
Inscription : 01 Fév 2005 11:39
Message(s) : 49
Localisation : Brisbane
Citer :
Je n'ai absolument rien contre le peuple britannique.


Peut être j’ai une sensibilité à fleur de peau, mais attention a la nomenclature . . . ça dépend à qui tu parle – personnellement, je me considère pas comme « peuple britannique » et même si on a toujours le ‘union jack’ sur le drapeau, je peut te rassurer que pour la plupart des gens, la reine est très loin de nos cœurs ! Il faut se rappeler que presque 50% des australiens veut qu’on devient une république (enfin, je peux pas parler pour tous le monde, bien sur . . .) Si tu lis les journaux, tu vas remarquer que le terme « anglo-saxon » n’est plus utilisé – maintenant c’est « anglo-celt » et je pense que c’est l’évidence d’une tendance de nous éloigner de l’Angleterre. C’est un petit point, pédant, peut être, mais important quand même (au moins, pour moi). Je dit ca gentillement - dans les forums, c'est pas toujours facile de communiquer l'ambience d'une message . . .

Citer :
J'ai simplement du mal à comprendre leur politique face au Aborigènes depuis trois cents ans


Pareillement, il ne faut pas confondre la politique du gouvernement de l’Australie avec celle du peuple australien. C’est vrai que il y a une attitude assez apathique, même ignorante, chez beaucoup des Australiens, mais il y en a des autres qui font beaucoup pour changer les choses. On fait ce que on peut – noir et blanc. Quant a moi, c’est dans l’éducation, parce que c’est ce que je fais dans la vie, et en changent des attitudes de quelques étudiants chaque année, je peux contribuer a ma façon, et j’en connais beaucoup qui font pareil dans leur façon. J’essaie de mettre la thème ‘aborigène’ dans tous mes sujets – musique, medias, ‘cultural theory’ (toujours pas de traduction ?) et le nombre de fois que j’entend « je ne savait pas ça » et incroyable et gratifiant au même temps.

Pour moi aussi, c'est un sujet pres de mon coeur, et c'est frustrant, degoutant, et deprimant qu'il semble que rien ne change. Mais, ce n’est pas la peine d’essayer á comprendre – en tout façon, c’est impossible : il n’y a pas de compréhension dans cette histoire. Essaie plutôt de le changer. L’histoire est subjective et écrit pas ceux qui ont la pouvoir, et on n’entends pas l’histoire des autres : c’est á nous de changer tout ça . . .


  Profil  
 
 
Message Publié : 21 Fév 2005 16:40 
Avatar de l’utilisateur
FranceDownUnder Expert
FranceDownUnder Expert
Hors-ligne
Inscription : 24 Oct 2004 19:09
Message(s) : 665
Localisation : Forestville
C'est très intéressant d'apprendre que le mot anglo-saxon n'est plus usité Down Under...car finalement anglo stands pour anglais et saxon pour un voisin d'outre rhin à l'origine casque à pointe.
Je n'ai pas réussi à trouver de chiffre récent concernant les zones d'origines des actuels australiens, allez disons en 2000, mais en prenant en compte ceux qui sont déjà là, Franglophone, aurais-tu cela dans ton cartable de prof? J'ai toujours entendu dire par exemple que Melbourne était la 2ème ville grecque du monde après Athènes. Ni anglo ni saxon quoi. Et que dire de nos amis italiens sans qui Darlinghurst ne serait ce qu'il est...(cappuccino miam, bien que la pizza à l'ananas : :? ) pas franchement saxon et anglo encore moins...et la population d'origine asiatique.... mais du coup anglo celt me gêne un peu... ni anglo ni celt, les thaîs, viets, indiens et chinois...pour ne citer qu'eux.

Donc pour résumer anglo celt, c'est parce que les australiens d'orgine irlandaise ne se sentaient pas concernés? Moi, ça va, je suis le bout celt, mais j'aimerais comprendre...

Agnès :lol:


  Profil  
 
 
Message Publié : 21 Fév 2005 18:08 
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Mate
Mate
Hors-ligne
Inscription : 01 Fév 2005 11:39
Message(s) : 49
Localisation : Brisbane
T'as raison Agnes - je me suis pas bien exprime. Je voulait dire que le terme anglo-saxon - quand c'est utilise - s'est fait remplace par le terme anglo-celte. Je ne sais pas pourqoui, mais, a mon avis c'est a cause du fait que on s'eloigne de plus en plus de l'angelterre. Personnelement, je prefere le terme 'australien' - c'est un jeune pays et on est tous d'ailleurs a l'origine (heureusement: c'est une des chose que j'aime bien de l'australie) J'espere que - cette fois - je me fait comprendre . . . :oops:

Donna


  Profil  
 
 
Message Publié : 21 Fév 2005 18:20 
Avatar de l’utilisateur
FranceDownUnder Expert
FranceDownUnder Expert
Hors-ligne
Inscription : 26 Nov 2004 05:07
Message(s) : 410
Localisation : annecy
agneslgt a écrit :
...et la population d'origine asiatique.... mais du coup anglo celt me gêne un peu... ni anglo ni celt, les thaîs, viets, indiens et chinois...pour ne citer qu'eux.

Agnès :lol:

es tu sûr que toutes ces populations de diverses origines soient considéré comme australiennes à part entière ?
En Australie tu as l'impression de vivre dans un monde où tout est beau , où tout le monde s'aime , où tout le monde est égal au vue de ses origines......tu as dèja dicuté avec un Australien de base ( je te parle pas de ceux des milieux intellectuels citadins de Sydney ou autre).....vois le regard qu'il porte sur "tous ces immigrés grecs , turcs , asiatiques , mélanésiens , portugais......ne pas voir le côté réactionnaire et raciste des Australiens , c'est se voiler la face.


  Profil  
 
 
Message Publié : 21 Fév 2005 22:44 
Avatar de l’utilisateur
FranceDownUnder Expert
FranceDownUnder Expert
Hors-ligne
Inscription : 24 Oct 2004 19:09
Message(s) : 665
Localisation : Forestville
remival a écrit :
tu as dèja dicuté avec un Australien de base ( je te parle pas de ceux des milieux intellectuels citadins de Sydney ou autre).....vois le regard qu'il porte sur "tous ces immigrés grecs , turcs , asiatiques , mélanésiens , portugais......ne pas voir le côté réactionnaire et raciste des Australiens , c'est se voiler la face.


Et oui... mais tout dépend de ce que tu entends par un australien de base...faut-il que ses ancêtres aient été convicts?
Parmi mes amis, que pourtant j'appelle australiens il y a des italiens 3ème génération, des irlandais de 3ème et 4ème générations, des anglais de je ne sais combien...des grecs : ces gens là sont ouverts et tolérants. Ce à quoi tu fais allusion ce serait, à mon humble avis de "sales cons" et désolée mais je n'ai pas le souvenir d'en avoir rencontré. Bien sûr je ne suis restée que 1 an et demi à Sydney et je n'ai pas fréquenté les coins les plus mal famés du NSW, alors que c'est peut être ton cas????

Alors franchement, "ne pas voir le côté réactionnaire et raciste des Australiens, c'est se voiler la face" il faudrait peut être balayer devant sa porte (franco-française) avant de balancer des trucs comme cela. T'es copain avec Carine ou quoi?

Parce que les fachos, réacs et racistes j'en vois tous les jours ici!


:(


  Profil  
 
  Aborigènes: où sont-ils?
Message Publié : 21 Fév 2005 22:53 
Avatar de l’utilisateur
FranceDownUnder Addict
FranceDownUnder Addict
Hors-ligne
Inscription : 12 Oct 2004 00:48
Message(s) : 159
Localisation : Bondi Beach NSW
...
Tu as raison Agnès, car malheureusement des racistes il y en a un peu partout. C'est souvent la manipulation, la récupération politique, l'ignorance et la peur qui conduisent à des idées et à des comportements racistes et xénophobes.

Que devient le parti politique australien "One Nation"? Est-il toujours aussi virulent sur la scène politique australienne en 2005?

Ah la la.. dans quel monde vit-on? Dites-moi les amis?

julien
:wink:


  Profil  
 
  Anglo-Celt
Message Publié : 22 Fév 2005 14:18 
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Mate
Mate
Hors-ligne
Inscription : 01 Fév 2005 11:39
Message(s) : 49
Localisation : Brisbane
It's been bothering me that I didn't express what I wanted to say in my previous post, so this time, so there are no misinterpretations, I'll try in English (I seem to get into trouble when I try to explain myself in French :oops: )
Ok - the term anglo-celt in fact has its origins in England, and came about because of a sentiment that the term anglo-saxon, which originated at the time of King Alfred, represents only the two main Germanic tribes which invaded England - the Angles and the Saxons, and did not represent the Celtic people who were there before, but were pushed to the western and southern coasts, and to whom a large percentage of today's English people are related. The term anglo-celt is meant to recognise the two main genetic groups which consitute England - teutonic and celt. I guess, if one wanted to be pedantic, we could say that even then the term doesn't represent the original inhabitants of England, but where do you draw the line? It is my opinion (and my opinion only) that the term has been taken up in the Australian press, when referring to people of English and/or Irish heritage, because of recent debate of the republic issue and links with England. I don't think that the question of Irish ancestry has anything to do with it, except perhaps for the more recent obsession with "all things celtic" (TV shows, documentaries,music, tatoos, neo-pagansim etc) which seems to be especially popular in Australia and the US.

What I want to make clear is that personally, I don't see any need to specify what an Australian's heritage is: we don't say "german-australian" or "italian-australian" or "chinese-australian", so why say "anglo-celt"? I think such distinctions only serve to encourage racism. As far as I'm concerned, if you have Australian citizenship, you are an Australian - full stop. At the same time, you have to be careful with such a description, because it implies sameness; that we should all subscribe to some cultural template which says what it is to be "australian". And I am quite sure that there are some who would like to see all cultural "baggage" (foreign language, traditions etc) dropped before someone can classify as being australian - like the voters for Pauline Hanson for example. By the way, Julien, fortunately over the past 3 elections her percentage of the votes has dropped from around 18% to 1.5%. I would like to think that this is because Australians are becoming less racist, but sadly it is more likely because she didn't have any strong economic policy, and in the end, people vote with their pockets.

Now for the statistics: Canberra-based demographer Charles Price claims that the anglo-celtic population of Australia was around 70% in 2000, but will have declined to 62% by 2025 - hence (fortunately) we have a very rich and varied cultural background. As for whether Australians are racist? I'm sure many of us are, but I don't see it as any worse that in any other country. Like Julien says - racism is driven by fear and ignorance, and is easily manipulated by governments wishing to keep control.

But back to the original question - which was where are all the indigenous australians. The settlers/invaders of Australia did their best to destroy the indgenous population and/or their cuture (in the end, it's the same thing) and very nearly succeeded: more than a 1000 dialects lost, population decimated, and australian aborigines even today live on average 20 years less than white australians. Not many people would dispute that (or maybe I'm just naive) but I think the question should be why and how does the Australian government continue to fail its indigenous people despite a lot of talk and a lot of money, and there you will find the answer to your question. I certainly don't have an answer.

Donna


  Profil  
 
  Donna's point of view
Message Publié : 22 Fév 2005 19:04 
Avatar de l’utilisateur
FranceDownUnder Addict
FranceDownUnder Addict
Hors-ligne
Inscription : 12 Oct 2004 00:48
Message(s) : 159
Localisation : Bondi Beach NSW
...
You're right Donna. 100% right, and really clear explanation also. Thanks for that.
Julien


  Profil  
 
  some of my thoughts...
Message Publié : 27 Fév 2005 13:06 
Avatar de l’utilisateur
FranceDownUnder Expert
FranceDownUnder Expert
Hors-ligne
Inscription : 07 Juin 2003 16:56
Message(s) : 1245
Localisation : >Une aussie que vit a Ballarat, 100 km N-O de Melbourne
franglofone a écrit :
c’est où l’éducation des jeunes (ou les ‘pas si jeunes’), la prochaine génération, et celle qui va se trouver confronter a le même situation ? Dans la culture aborigène, tout est inextricablement lié : si tu enlève même une partie (pour exemple le « walkabout » á Port Augusta) cette culture ne peut plus fonctionner, et c’est qu’on trouve la racine du « problème ». . .


I agree with you, Donna, that education really is the key. Of course people can be RE-educated, but it's much easier to start with the young. I think what's being taught in schools now is much more realistic now than when I was at school and we were only taught about 'primitive' Aborigines and how Australia was 'Terra Nullis' (an empty land) when Europeans arrived, which of course it wasn't.
My first encounter with aborigines was when I took a tour to the outback at age 14, attended my first corroboree (even if it was a little commercial), visited Aboriginal cultural centres, and saw them sitting in the streets in unhappy, alcoholic situations.
But I don't think I had any real understanding of them until many years later, when my husband announced that the Aborigines in the time period of 1830s - 1930s would be the subject of his phD thesis. I thought then that writing about the Aborigines for 3 years would be boring, but the more I saw of his work, the historical accounts, journals and books he was using, and read some of them myself, the more I found myself sympathising with their situation and understanding a little of how they must feel today. 3 years of being surrounded by the Aboriginal topic on a daily basis, changes you (whether I liked it or not, but by the end, I saw it all as very beneficial).

frangloflone a écrit :
Personnellement, j’ai honte pour ce qu’on a fait aux « original owners » de ce pays, mais c’est pas la honte qui va améliorer leur situation – c’est plutôt la reconnaissance de ce qu’on leur a fait (quand je dis ‘on’, je veut dire les australiens bien sur), la recognition de leur droits égales et, plus que tout (dans mon avis), du respect pour leur culture, et l’acceptation que ce n’est pas comme la notre, et donc peut jamais être « assimiler ».


Hmm, I think I used to feel ashamed, but then I wondered why, when it wasn't my ancestors who massacred them, and I have no ancestors who were politicians. I figure if you treat every section of society equally and with respect, including Aboriginal people, and teach your family to do the same by example, then one doesn't need to feel ashamed for the past that you had nothing to do with, just sorrowful for what happened, but one also has to focus on the future and some of the positive signs (because there are some), and moving forward.
I figure if I was supposed to feel ashamed, it would also be like feeling ashamed for what was done to the North American Indians and all other nations who've been conquered - just because I'm a white person.

franglofone a écrit :
But back to the original question - which was where are all the indigenous australians. The settlers/invaders of Australia did their best to destroy the indgenous population and/or their culture (in the end, it's the same thing) and very nearly succeeded: more than a 1000 dialects lost, population decimated, and australian aborigines even today live on average 20 years less than white australians. Not many people would dispute that (or maybe I'm just naive) but I think the question should be why and how does the Australian government continue to fail its indigenous people despite a lot of talk and a lot of money, and there you will find the answer to your question. I certainly don't have an answer.


Maybe I'm a bit naïve too, but despite the obvious failures of the Australian Government with some of the schemes they've had in recent years for Aboriginal people (like the giving of new housing to them without first finding out what they want), I also see that there have been some rather successful initiatives too. Perhaps living in a smaller city helps, to be able to see the smaller details more easily, rather than just the general overall national picture and statistics, which can look pretty depressing.
By positive signs that I see, I'm thinking of Aboriginal cultural/art/touristique centres (such as the very successful and spectacular Brambuk Centre in the Grampians National Park in Victoria, http://www.brambuk.com.au/ which is run by the Aboriginal people of that community, and was established about 15 years ago. It has just secured another $1 million in new government funding)

There are also the Aboriginal Co-operatives (Government funded, aboriginal run community health/education centres, specifically for indigenous needs)
Not every Australian region has one, though Warrnambool (on the Great Ocean Road - population 28,000) has two of them http://www.worngundidj.org.au/cooperative.htm and they seem to be becoming more common and well known.
The Ballarat Co-op is quite large, and was built brand new as a two storey building in the centre of the city a few years ago. It not only delivers health and education programmes, but also provides many employment opportunities for indigenous people, and they seem to be developing stronger links between this centre and the wider Ballarat business community, which is especially evident each year during NAIDOC week. (National Aboriginal week)
A brand new initiative in my region has been the 'Koori Job Shop' (Koori = Victorian aboriginal people). It is run by the Central Highlands branch of a government organisation called "ACC" (Area Consultative Committee). In this latest scheme, their indigenous worker helps to operate a 'Job Shop' - aboriginals can come in to this office freely and get resume help, one-on-one coaching and mentoring and other help that they need in getting a job. The indigenous employment officer also provides the link between jobseekers and employers, a kind of liaison (a bit like the system of Job Network Agency which exists for the general population in Australia but with more individual help)

My husband worked for the ACC a few years ago, just after his PhD. He said he learned more about their ways and local issues in 6 months of just sitting next to his aboriginal colleague, than he did in the 3 years writing and researching his Aboriginal thesis. While my husband was working for the ACC, they sometimes organised and held community events involving the local aboriginal community (which in our city of 83,000 people stands at about 600 - including white aboriginals). One such event was when the famous aboriginal movie "Follow the Rabbit Proof Fence" was released. The ACC organised a movie night and many free tickets were distributed to the white business community and the local aboriginal community, with local aboriginal spokespeople speaking to the audience before the film, and a supper gathering afterwards.
They were also involved in helping to run the aboriginal NAIDOC week ball one year - a formal dinner and ball with aboriginal guest speakers, and local aboriginal entertainers such as choirs and an aboriginal guy and his son who often busk (perform) in the local shopping mall. This was also attended by many members of the 'white' business community and was a great opportunity for the 2 groups to mix (pity this mainly happens only once a year).

And within the next few months, Ballarat is about to get something really spectacular: it will be the completion and grand opening of the Kirrit Bareet Aboriginal Cultural and Art Centre http://www.aboriginalballarat.com.au/ which has taken $2 million dollars to establish (largely government funding, I believe) but will be operated by the local aboriginal community, and all the artwork by local artists.

This, I feel is what is being done right: the government giving the funding to set these things up, but the control and the running of them in the hands of the local aboriginal communities.
And when these initiatives succeed, they can provide a model for other communities to follow.

Kate


Dernière édition par Kate le 27 Fév 2005 14:02, édité 2 fois.

  Profil  
 
  a few more thoughts...
Message Publié : 27 Fév 2005 13:17 
Avatar de l’utilisateur
FranceDownUnder Expert
FranceDownUnder Expert
Hors-ligne
Inscription : 07 Juin 2003 16:56
Message(s) : 1245
Localisation : >Une aussie que vit a Ballarat, 100 km N-O de Melbourne
Flaussard, here's a link to a list of books about aborigines & their culture which I've made from my home library. http://www.francedownunder.com/forum/vi ... viewresult

As Donna has also said, on the positive side, there are many people who are passionate for the aboriginal cause and work tirelessly to help them, and these authors represent that side.
Some of the books are more in depth and complicated than others. For an easier one, I can highly recommend 'Tracks' (though it is as much a story of a journey as it is about aborigines met on the journey). It has the advantage of having come out in two forms: one as the novel, and another in a large A3 pictorial coffee book edition "From Alice to the Ocean" which is rather spectacular. C'est assez celebre pour etre trouve dans une bibliotheque, je crois. There's some stuff about it on this website as well http://www.schools.ash.org.au/wyongps/5lepeop.htm

jul a écrit :
Que devient le parti politique australien "One Nation"? Est-il toujours aussi virulent sur la scène politique australienne en 2005?


I remember hearing just a few months ago on the news, that One Nation as a political party has ceased to exist (whether that is for all Australia, or just some states, I'm not sure).

Julien, I really like your thoughts on the aboriginal subject and I think your idea of 3 types of aborigines is well thought out (sure, there are many other sub types, but I think it's useful to be able to break things down into more manageable pieces like this). I would, however suggest a 4th major type, which I haven't noticed any mention of: white or part-white aborigines (for lack of a better word).
I was surprised to learn a few years ago that there are about 600 aboriginals living in my city.....seemed impossible, since I've only ever seen a few of them in the street while shopping or something. But then my husband started working for a government organisation that employed at least one aboriginal person as part of its policy, and events were organised between this office and the aboriginal community.
One event was a free talk to be given by a local professional aboriginal woman....who turned out to be blond and blue eyed, and it was rather disconcerting to hear her speaking about how she'd been learning the 'old ways' and skills like basket weaving to pass on to the younger generation of 'her people' and raising awareness through talks such as this. It was very difficult to keep remembering that she was actually Aboriginal.
And then one of our friends (who's 1/2 russian), got himself an aboriginal partner, and with her he has aboriginal/russian twins and one other baby, all of whom have blond hair and blue eyes and you would never ever know to look at them that their mother is fully aboriginal.
I have a feeling though that as they grow older, they are likely to feel more Australian Aboriginal first before anything else, despite their fair appearance, because their mother's culture is quite strong, and she and many members of her family are aboriginal artists. Their house is small and simple (they could be quite poor as there are 6 children and neither parent works), yet filled with spectacular artwork on every wall and symbols of Aboriginal culture.
My husband also used to be part of a programme which gave home-tutoring in Maths and English to children of aboriginal families struggling with their lessons. Almost all of the children he used to visit for these lessons had one parent of European background (particularly Scottish) and those children were all of everyday western appearance.

Another interesting indication of the prominence of part aboriginal people in my city is an audio visual movie in an aboriginal inspired theatre at Sovereign Hill, Ballarat's famous 1850s gold town outdoor museum.
In the video, the narrator is dressed in western clothes, is pale but with dark eyes, and speaks passionately about 'my people'. First many scenes from the dreamtime and legends are shown, and descriptions of the ancient life of Victorian aboriginal life.
The video then shows present day scenes of the city, and the aboriginal in western clothes says things like "where my ancestors once hunted, a city now stands. Where once the manna gums grew, now stands concrete and stone. But my people are still here - my people are still here. "
Another scene is shown on the video, of a classroom full of children at the Aboriginal Co op in the city - it appears quite deliberate that the camera focuses on several children in the room who are learning to use aboriginal tools and instruments, yet are blond haired and blue eyed, and others in the class are a mixture, with hardly a 100% aboriginal child in sight.
But what I've learned over time to keep in mind is, their colour may have disappeared, but they are still Australian aboriginal, especially to their own way of thinking.

jul a écrit :
Un jour je m'arrête en voiture à Wauchope sur la Stuart Hwy entre Tennant et Alice dans le NT. Sur la terrasse en bois du vieux pub il y avait deux Aborigènes d'une cinquantaine d'années. J'ai bien croisé leurs regards en entrant, mais j'avoue que je n'ai pas osé les approcher, pour leur dire quoi?? "Euh bonjour je m'appelle Julien et je suis français, et j'aime beaucoup votre culture?!!" puéril non? J'ai senti comme un fossé infranchissable. Mélange de peine, de honte, de timidité en moi. Difficile.


Jul, I think I can identify with your story. It's a bit like I felt the first time I was ever in France.
There I was in Paris for the first time, wanting to meet French people, but feeling too shy to do much more than buy stamps in a shop, and feeling frustrated for what I could see, but not take part in.

Visiting Belgium next was a different story. I didn't have this problem.
I already had a Belgian penpal I'd been writing to for 3 years, and she and her family welcomed me for a couple of days. I got to have the closer look at their culture that I discovered I'd really needed more than I thought, to be able to understand.

This may be a crazy thing to suggest, but has anybody considered looking for Aboriginal people to correspond with? I'm sure there are many groups willing to share their culture with others (I'm not suggesting go looking for aborigines on remote missions, as snail mail might not be so fun and there could be a reduced ability to read & write from some of those people, but rather perhaps seeking out Aboriginal people from Aboriginal Co-ops and those who are part of other community initiatives like the Aboriginal Cultural Centres.)
I'm thinking if you found Aboriginal people willing to correspond with you over time, when you came to Australia and both sides had some understanding and friendship, they could welcome you .....and you could spend time with them.

here's a link to Aboriginal Co ops, such as the Ballarat one....
http://www.naccho.org.au/body.cfm?subID=10
http://www.naccho.org.au/Home.html

(Sorry these posts have been so long, but as you can see, I've been saving up all my information for a few days...)

Kate


  Profil  
 
 
Message Publié : 27 Fév 2005 21:54 
FranceDownUnder Expert
FranceDownUnder Expert
Hors-ligne
Inscription : 25 Juin 2004 17:35
Message(s) : 482
Localisation : Woolloomooloo
Citer :
et même si on a toujours le ‘union jack’ sur le drapeau, je peut te rassurer que pour la plupart des gens, la reine est très loin de nos cœurs !


Franglophone, je veux bien croire que de tres nombreux aussies n'ont ont rien a f------ de la reine. Mais n'y a-t-il pas comme demandé dans un post récent des referendums reguliers, dont le dernier a confirmé la vlonté de rester une monarchie constitutionnelle?
par la je veux dire que la majorité (-malheureuse democratie ou souvent les minorités n'ont pas leur mot a dire-) veut que le régime reste celui de la reine?

je pose pas la question pour la polémique mais pour me renseigner.
Par ailleurs si ca a été évoqué ailleurs je suis désolé mais je n'ai pas lu tous les comments du post :oops: la honte!

merci pour la réponse!


  Profil  
 
Afficher les messages publiés depuis :  Trier par  
Répondre au sujet  [ 27 message(s) ]  Aller vers la page Précédent  1, 2


Qui est en ligne ?

Utilisateur(s) parcourant ce forum : Aucun utilisateur inscrit et 221 invité(s)


Le fuseau horaire est UTC+8 heures [Heure d’été]

Vous ne pouvez pas publier de nouveaux sujets dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas répondre aux sujets dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas éditer vos messages dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas supprimer vos messages dans ce forum

Recherche de :
Aller vers :  

Dernières discussions sur les forums FranceDownUnder.com:




Forums powered by phpBB
©2002-2014 FranceDownUnder.com